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	<title>Comments on: Financial Freedom: Education and training</title>
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	<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/01/04/financial-freedom-education-and-training/</link>
	<description>Simple Living = Frugality = Peace of Mind: Personal Finance and Stress Control</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 21:15:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Erika</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/01/04/financial-freedom-education-and-training/comment-page-1/#comment-24900</link>
		<dc:creator>Erika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=10594#comment-24900</guid>
		<description>i wish to have Financial Freedom in the     next 5 years or so. i was able to establish a small internet retail  store last year. i am hoping to gain enough profit from this store.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i wish to have Financial Freedom in the     next 5 years or so. i was able to establish a small internet retail  store last year. i am hoping to gain enough profit from this store.</p>
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		<title>By: funny</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/01/04/financial-freedom-education-and-training/comment-page-1/#comment-23062</link>
		<dc:creator>funny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 17:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=10594#comment-23062</guid>
		<description>@ Tamara: Congratulations on your accomplishment, and congrats on getting a job, even if it is hourly. And welcome to the ranks of the laboring class. ;-)

Hmmm... I would question the ethics of both sides there. If it is true the department required a text for no other reason than to enrich the bookstore (but I doubt that...how does the bookstore benefit when it has not only to return students&#039; money but pay to ship the unused books back to the publisher?), then obviously that&#039;s unethical. If the professor is asking students to buy a required text and then telling them, &lt;em&gt;sotto voce&lt;/em&gt;, to return it and get a refund because he has some other idea about how the course should be run, that&#039;s a bit stinky, too.

If the department requires a specific text, there&#039;s probably a reason for it, and that reason would have more to do with academic rigor and integrity and less to do with some sort of sweetheart deal with the campus bookstore. So when a professor writes a syllabus that says she&#039;s requiring the text (syllabi generally have to be filed with the department, and many departmental chairs review them each semester) when in fact she has no intention of using it, she&#039;s undermining the program&#039;s integrity and she&#039;s lying to her colleagues.

The undermining goes further than is evident on the surface. Every few years, accredited schools undergo audits and reviews by their regional and national accrediting organizations. These reviews invariably include rigorous demands that the school show how it evaluates the quality and effectiveness of its own programs and the achievement of its students. Course syllabi are submitted as part of this process. So, if professors routinely are ignoring the requirements printed in their syllabi, then they are deceiving the accrediting agencies -- oh, let&#039;s be fair: they&#039;re &lt;em&gt;lying&lt;/em&gt; -- and the school&#039;s accreditation is a worthless sham.

The syllabus is a contract between the institution and the students. If I were a graduate of such a college and I could actually prove that this practice was widespread and routine, I would report it to the school&#039;s accrediting agencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Tamara: Congratulations on your accomplishment, and congrats on getting a job, even if it is hourly. And welcome to the ranks of the laboring class. <img src='http://funny-about-money.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Hmmm&#8230; I would question the ethics of both sides there. If it is true the department required a text for no other reason than to enrich the bookstore (but I doubt that&#8230;how does the bookstore benefit when it has not only to return students&#8217; money but pay to ship the unused books back to the publisher?), then obviously that&#8217;s unethical. If the professor is asking students to buy a required text and then telling them, <em>sotto voce</em>, to return it and get a refund because he has some other idea about how the course should be run, that&#8217;s a bit stinky, too.</p>
<p>If the department requires a specific text, there&#8217;s probably a reason for it, and that reason would have more to do with academic rigor and integrity and less to do with some sort of sweetheart deal with the campus bookstore. So when a professor writes a syllabus that says she&#8217;s requiring the text (syllabi generally have to be filed with the department, and many departmental chairs review them each semester) when in fact she has no intention of using it, she&#8217;s undermining the program&#8217;s integrity and she&#8217;s lying to her colleagues.</p>
<p>The undermining goes further than is evident on the surface. Every few years, accredited schools undergo audits and reviews by their regional and national accrediting organizations. These reviews invariably include rigorous demands that the school show how it evaluates the quality and effectiveness of its own programs and the achievement of its students. Course syllabi are submitted as part of this process. So, if professors routinely are ignoring the requirements printed in their syllabi, then they are deceiving the accrediting agencies &#8212; oh, let&#8217;s be fair: they&#8217;re <em>lying</em> &#8212; and the school&#8217;s accreditation is a worthless sham.</p>
<p>The syllabus is a contract between the institution and the students. If I were a graduate of such a college and I could actually prove that this practice was widespread and routine, I would report it to the school&#8217;s accrediting agencies.</p>
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		<title>By: Tamara</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/01/04/financial-freedom-education-and-training/comment-page-1/#comment-23058</link>
		<dc:creator>Tamara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 16:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=10594#comment-23058</guid>
		<description>I just graduated from college last May, and actually, a lot of professors put the book on the syllabus and never intended to use it. They did so because they were required to by the department, not because they had personally selected the text or built their lesson plans around them. On one or two occasions they would actually tell the class that the book was just for supplemental reference and everything we would need to know would be in the lectures, but swore us to secrecy on that because they were /supposed/ to tell us to give our money to the university bookstore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just graduated from college last May, and actually, a lot of professors put the book on the syllabus and never intended to use it. They did so because they were required to by the department, not because they had personally selected the text or built their lesson plans around them. On one or two occasions they would actually tell the class that the book was just for supplemental reference and everything we would need to know would be in the lectures, but swore us to secrecy on that because they were /supposed/ to tell us to give our money to the university bookstore.</p>
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		<title>By: funny</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/01/04/financial-freedom-education-and-training/comment-page-1/#comment-22847</link>
		<dc:creator>funny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=10594#comment-22847</guid>
		<description>Of course, one of the reasons that new editions have to be done every couple of years IS the used-book business, which cuts the publisher and author out of the transaction. Publishers have to change the books so that buyers will be forced to buy from the publisher, not from the chain of middlemen and campus bookstores that are sucking the life out of the textbook publishing business.

Textbooks are surprisingly profitable. I still earn a small royalty on &lt;i&gt;the Essential Feature&lt;/i&gt;, even though it&#039;s long out of date. Writing a text that gets widely accepted for those monster lower-division courses that fill gen-ed requirements all over the country can go a long way toward funding your retirement. However, if it drops off the market after two or three years because all the copies are being recirculated in campus bookstores, then you&#039;ll be trying to live on Social Security.

That said, there&#039;s really little excuse to charge $80 for a freshman comp book -- that&#039;s the price of a new copy of Seyler&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Read, Reason, Write&lt;/i&gt;. Exc-y-ooze me??? This thing is an ordinary paperback, with no arcane knowledge and no expensive graphics. True, they probably had to pay reprint fees for some (but I&#039;ll bet not all) of the 100 or so short articles they reproduced (some of them are in the public domain). I&#039;ve done anthologies...it doesn&#039;t cost 80 bucks a copy to buy reprint rights for stuff like this. No question about it: some textbooks (not all) rip off the student.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, one of the reasons that new editions have to be done every couple of years IS the used-book business, which cuts the publisher and author out of the transaction. Publishers have to change the books so that buyers will be forced to buy from the publisher, not from the chain of middlemen and campus bookstores that are sucking the life out of the textbook publishing business.</p>
<p>Textbooks are surprisingly profitable. I still earn a small royalty on <i>the Essential Feature</i>, even though it&#8217;s long out of date. Writing a text that gets widely accepted for those monster lower-division courses that fill gen-ed requirements all over the country can go a long way toward funding your retirement. However, if it drops off the market after two or three years because all the copies are being recirculated in campus bookstores, then you&#8217;ll be trying to live on Social Security.</p>
<p>That said, there&#8217;s really little excuse to charge $80 for a freshman comp book &#8212; that&#8217;s the price of a new copy of Seyler&#8217;s <i>Read, Reason, Write</i>. Exc-y-ooze me??? This thing is an ordinary paperback, with no arcane knowledge and no expensive graphics. True, they probably had to pay reprint fees for some (but I&#8217;ll bet not all) of the 100 or so short articles they reproduced (some of them are in the public domain). I&#8217;ve done anthologies&#8230;it doesn&#8217;t cost 80 bucks a copy to buy reprint rights for stuff like this. No question about it: some textbooks (not all) rip off the student.</p>
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		<title>By: frugalscholar</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/01/04/financial-freedom-education-and-training/comment-page-1/#comment-22845</link>
		<dc:creator>frugalscholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=10594#comment-22845</guid>
		<description>The book situation is very complicated now. New editions come out every two years for many books, so the book becomes worthless very quickly. 

Also, many depts have custom texts, which have no value outside the institution. This is a money-maker for the dept. Before you start screaming, realize that this pays for things like xeroxing exams for students in this era of budget cuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The book situation is very complicated now. New editions come out every two years for many books, so the book becomes worthless very quickly. </p>
<p>Also, many depts have custom texts, which have no value outside the institution. This is a money-maker for the dept. Before you start screaming, realize that this pays for things like xeroxing exams for students in this era of budget cuts.</p>
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		<title>By: funny</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/01/04/financial-freedom-education-and-training/comment-page-1/#comment-22844</link>
		<dc:creator>funny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=10594#comment-22844</guid>
		<description>@ Leah: That is just shocking! The students in your son&#039;s class should have gone to the departmental chair and complained...there&#039;s no excuse for making students buy an expensive textbook and then not using it. If nothing else, the chair may have been able to put some pressure on the bookstore to take it back.

Often adjunct faculty at community colleges are unaware that campus bookstores have exploitive policies, such as refusing to take unused books back after a certain date. The instructor may not have known that revising the course in midstream would cost the students so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Leah: That is just shocking! The students in your son&#8217;s class should have gone to the departmental chair and complained&#8230;there&#8217;s no excuse for making students buy an expensive textbook and then not using it. If nothing else, the chair may have been able to put some pressure on the bookstore to take it back.</p>
<p>Often adjunct faculty at community colleges are unaware that campus bookstores have exploitive policies, such as refusing to take unused books back after a certain date. The instructor may not have known that revising the course in midstream would cost the students so much.</p>
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		<title>By: leah</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/01/04/financial-freedom-education-and-training/comment-page-1/#comment-22792</link>
		<dc:creator>leah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 21:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=10594#comment-22792</guid>
		<description>My biggest pet-peeve is books. A new  edition is put out every couple of years with relatively few changes and a hefty price. My son had to buy a new Chemistry book but after the return-date was past, the instructor told the students they didn&#039;t need it. Other books were barely used at all.

My son finished up this past semester with a Power Plant Tech AAS degree, now if only there were jobs out there ($25-$35/hr possible.). At least, he&#039;s debt free.

Cheers to 2010!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My biggest pet-peeve is books. A new  edition is put out every couple of years with relatively few changes and a hefty price. My son had to buy a new Chemistry book but after the return-date was past, the instructor told the students they didn&#8217;t need it. Other books were barely used at all.</p>
<p>My son finished up this past semester with a Power Plant Tech AAS degree, now if only there were jobs out there ($25-$35/hr possible.). At least, he&#8217;s debt free.</p>
<p>Cheers to 2010!</p>
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		<title>By: SimplyForties</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/01/04/financial-freedom-education-and-training/comment-page-1/#comment-22777</link>
		<dc:creator>SimplyForties</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=10594#comment-22777</guid>
		<description>As my son stumbles toward the finish line after 5 years of college, I&#039;m banking on any college degree is better than no college degree.  Heck, I have a degree is History that I&#039;ve never used and I&#039;m still glad I have it.  I hope his degree in Drama (yes, Drama) will serve him as well!

Immediate post-graduate plans?  Travel around the country in an RV with a friend.  LOL - You can only guide them so much!  If that actually happens, hopefully he&#039;ll gain lots of story ideas for his eventual fame and fortune in Tinsel Town.

I think two years in community college is the best advice of all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As my son stumbles toward the finish line after 5 years of college, I&#8217;m banking on any college degree is better than no college degree.  Heck, I have a degree is History that I&#8217;ve never used and I&#8217;m still glad I have it.  I hope his degree in Drama (yes, Drama) will serve him as well!</p>
<p>Immediate post-graduate plans?  Travel around the country in an RV with a friend.  LOL &#8211; You can only guide them so much!  If that actually happens, hopefully he&#8217;ll gain lots of story ideas for his eventual fame and fortune in Tinsel Town.</p>
<p>I think two years in community college is the best advice of all!</p>
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