<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: New refinement on Year 1 retirement strategy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://funny-about-money.com/2010/03/08/new-refinement-on-year-1-retirement-strategy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/03/08/new-refinement-on-year-1-retirement-strategy/</link>
	<description>Simple Living = Frugality = Peace of Mind: Personal Finance and Stress Control</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 21:15:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: frugalscholar</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/03/08/new-refinement-on-year-1-retirement-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-25110</link>
		<dc:creator>frugalscholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 04:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=11699#comment-25110</guid>
		<description>Accrding to p. 30 of IRS 1040 booklet, employees of an iS corp can take the self-employment health insurance deduction. That is a very valuable deduction. For health insurance premiums.

Healthcare COSTS are deductible via itemizing--

As far as I can tell, the purpose of an S corp is to avoid self-employment taxes on part of the income. I wonder if it might not be more beneficial to be a sole proprietor. The self-employed people of my acquaintance (contractors, mostly) pay little  tax of any sort because almost everything they do is a business expense. Your insurance deduction  might wipe out most of the income from the business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Accrding to p. 30 of IRS 1040 booklet, employees of an iS corp can take the self-employment health insurance deduction. That is a very valuable deduction. For health insurance premiums.</p>
<p>Healthcare COSTS are deductible via itemizing&#8211;</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, the purpose of an S corp is to avoid self-employment taxes on part of the income. I wonder if it might not be more beneficial to be a sole proprietor. The self-employed people of my acquaintance (contractors, mostly) pay little  tax of any sort because almost everything they do is a business expense. Your insurance deduction  might wipe out most of the income from the business.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: funny</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/03/08/new-refinement-on-year-1-retirement-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-25109</link>
		<dc:creator>funny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 01:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=11699#comment-25109</guid>
		<description>@ Susan: Yes, but they&#039;re employed. I&#039;m not. And they&#039;re earning a living wage. I&#039;m not. Although I&#039;m earning a little pittance from the community college, that quasi-contract job is NOT BENEFITS-ELIGIBLE. Thus I&#039;m barred from plugging into the District&#039;s 403(b) plan. Where the feds, the state, and the community college are concerned, I&#039;m a part-time benefits-ineligible employee, not a self-employed person.

I specifically asked two Social Security CSRs over the phone and one in person: &quot;Does $14,160 mean adjusted gross income?&quot; &quot;Do you mean after contributions to tax-deferred savings&quot;? &quot;Can we deduct medical costs from that&quot;? 

The answer was &quot;no, no, no. We mean gross. Plain old gross.&quot; They explicitly said there was no way out of it: It&#039;s not after-tax, it&#039;s not after mortgage deductions, it&#039;s not after IRAs. It&#039;s what you earn in a given year before you try to weasel out of declaring what you actually earned.

If your coworkers are collecting Social Security and earning a full salary, they probably are over the &quot;retirement age&quot; designated for their cohort. Until recently, this was 65. But for people born around 1945, it&#039;s 66. And the younger you are, the older the &quot;retirement age&quot; is. If you elect to draw Social Security before your &quot;retirement age,&quot; you are restricted to a specific, limited earned amount--in 2009 and 2010, that amount is $14,160. If you exceed that amount, the excess amount is effectively taxed at a 50% rate: 50 cents of every dollar above the allowed amount is taken out of your Social Security benefit.

This would be tolerable if it were just a matter of saying, &quot;OK, I earned $300 too much; here&#039;s a check for $150.&quot; But that&#039;s not how it works. A Social Security CSR told me that as soon as you exceed the earnings limit, SS withholds a benefit check--more than one, if your excess earning exceeds the amount of a single benefit payment. SS figures out how much you owe and returns the remainder to you, &lt;i&gt;but not until the following January.&lt;/i&gt; 

Suppose, for example, in August you let SS know that teaching three sections in the fall semester will cause you to exceed the earnings limit by $240 (we are told that we are required to notify SS &lt;i&gt;as soon as we become aware that we will exceed the limit&lt;/i&gt;). One ENTIRE month&#039;s benefit payment--in my case, a net of something over a grand, the bulk of my month&#039;s income--is withheld. Now several months pass, in which you&#039;d bloody well better have a  healthy contingency fund, unless you enjoy dining on cat food. Not until the following JANUARY do you get your withheld check back, minus half of the $240 overrun.

Fair? No. Terrifying? Yes. Aversive? Hell, yes!

After the approved &quot;retirement age,&quot; this restriction goes away. At that point you can earn as much as you want. What you put into an IRA or work-related retirement plan then becomes irrelevant, except as a tax shelter. After &quot;retirement age,&quot; what you earn has no bearing on how you collect your SS benefit. It&#039;s irrelevant, anyway, even before then, because before &quot;retirement age&quot; what counts as &quot;earned income&quot; is your entire gross earned income, not your AGI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Susan: Yes, but they&#8217;re employed. I&#8217;m not. And they&#8217;re earning a living wage. I&#8217;m not. Although I&#8217;m earning a little pittance from the community college, that quasi-contract job is NOT BENEFITS-ELIGIBLE. Thus I&#8217;m barred from plugging into the District&#8217;s 403(b) plan. Where the feds, the state, and the community college are concerned, I&#8217;m a part-time benefits-ineligible employee, not a self-employed person.</p>
<p>I specifically asked two Social Security CSRs over the phone and one in person: &#8220;Does $14,160 mean adjusted gross income?&#8221; &#8220;Do you mean after contributions to tax-deferred savings&#8221;? &#8220;Can we deduct medical costs from that&#8221;? </p>
<p>The answer was &#8220;no, no, no. We mean gross. Plain old gross.&#8221; They explicitly said there was no way out of it: It&#8217;s not after-tax, it&#8217;s not after mortgage deductions, it&#8217;s not after IRAs. It&#8217;s what you earn in a given year before you try to weasel out of declaring what you actually earned.</p>
<p>If your coworkers are collecting Social Security and earning a full salary, they probably are over the &#8220;retirement age&#8221; designated for their cohort. Until recently, this was 65. But for people born around 1945, it&#8217;s 66. And the younger you are, the older the &#8220;retirement age&#8221; is. If you elect to draw Social Security before your &#8220;retirement age,&#8221; you are restricted to a specific, limited earned amount&#8211;in 2009 and 2010, that amount is $14,160. If you exceed that amount, the excess amount is effectively taxed at a 50% rate: 50 cents of every dollar above the allowed amount is taken out of your Social Security benefit.</p>
<p>This would be tolerable if it were just a matter of saying, &#8220;OK, I earned $300 too much; here&#8217;s a check for $150.&#8221; But that&#8217;s not how it works. A Social Security CSR told me that as soon as you exceed the earnings limit, SS withholds a benefit check&#8211;more than one, if your excess earning exceeds the amount of a single benefit payment. SS figures out how much you owe and returns the remainder to you, <i>but not until the following January.</i> </p>
<p>Suppose, for example, in August you let SS know that teaching three sections in the fall semester will cause you to exceed the earnings limit by $240 (we are told that we are required to notify SS <i>as soon as we become aware that we will exceed the limit</i>). One ENTIRE month&#8217;s benefit payment&#8211;in my case, a net of something over a grand, the bulk of my month&#8217;s income&#8211;is withheld. Now several months pass, in which you&#8217;d bloody well better have a  healthy contingency fund, unless you enjoy dining on cat food. Not until the following JANUARY do you get your withheld check back, minus half of the $240 overrun.</p>
<p>Fair? No. Terrifying? Yes. Aversive? Hell, yes!</p>
<p>After the approved &#8220;retirement age,&#8221; this restriction goes away. At that point you can earn as much as you want. What you put into an IRA or work-related retirement plan then becomes irrelevant, except as a tax shelter. After &#8220;retirement age,&#8221; what you earn has no bearing on how you collect your SS benefit. It&#8217;s irrelevant, anyway, even before then, because before &#8220;retirement age&#8221; what counts as &#8220;earned income&#8221; is your entire gross earned income, not your AGI.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/03/08/new-refinement-on-year-1-retirement-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-25108</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 01:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=11699#comment-25108</guid>
		<description>Funny - I agree with the previous writer - I am pretty sure you can contribute some money to a 403b or traditional IRA and reduce your income. We have a couple of employees who do that at my place of employment. As recommended, ask your accountant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny &#8211; I agree with the previous writer &#8211; I am pretty sure you can contribute some money to a 403b or traditional IRA and reduce your income. We have a couple of employees who do that at my place of employment. As recommended, ask your accountant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: funny</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/03/08/new-refinement-on-year-1-retirement-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-25107</link>
		<dc:creator>funny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 22:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=11699#comment-25107</guid>
		<description>@ frugalscholar: But I&#039;m &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; self-employed. For freelance purposes, I&#039;m an employee of my S-corporation, which is a pass-through entity from which I draw a &quot;reasonable&quot; wage (per the IRS) and dividends. 

In fact, I have no self-employed income at this time.

Where the college is concerned, my tax lawyer says I&#039;m considered the District&#039;s part-time employee. The district gets to have its cake &amp; eat it, too: it carries adjuncts as  employees and gets all the benefits of that, but it doesn&#039;t pass any benefits along to the adjuncts--one of the benefits we don&#039;t get is the ability to call ourselves self-employed and claim the associated tax breaks. 

Dividend income is not counted as part of the income that&#039;s limited by Social Security. What counts is money from which FICA and Medicare are withheld. that&#039;s what makes the S-corporation work: it allows me to count a very limited amount of earnings from freelance work toward the earnings limitation and to take part or all of the rest of those earnings as dividends.

I generally itemize and always have, because I have so many sources of income and because some are fairly complex in nature. My taxes are not something I could even think of doing myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ frugalscholar: But I&#8217;m <i>not</i> self-employed. For freelance purposes, I&#8217;m an employee of my S-corporation, which is a pass-through entity from which I draw a &#8220;reasonable&#8221; wage (per the IRS) and dividends. </p>
<p>In fact, I have no self-employed income at this time.</p>
<p>Where the college is concerned, my tax lawyer says I&#8217;m considered the District&#8217;s part-time employee. The district gets to have its cake &#038; eat it, too: it carries adjuncts as  employees and gets all the benefits of that, but it doesn&#8217;t pass any benefits along to the adjuncts&#8211;one of the benefits we don&#8217;t get is the ability to call ourselves self-employed and claim the associated tax breaks. </p>
<p>Dividend income is not counted as part of the income that&#8217;s limited by Social Security. What counts is money from which FICA and Medicare are withheld. that&#8217;s what makes the S-corporation work: it allows me to count a very limited amount of earnings from freelance work toward the earnings limitation and to take part or all of the rest of those earnings as dividends.</p>
<p>I generally itemize and always have, because I have so many sources of income and because some are fairly complex in nature. My taxes are not something I could even think of doing myself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: frugalscholar</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/03/08/new-refinement-on-year-1-retirement-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-25105</link>
		<dc:creator>frugalscholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=11699#comment-25105</guid>
		<description>Also--as a part-time employee, can you invest w/ pretax income in a 403b or 457 or deferred comp. That wouldn&#039;t count as gross income then. Would it? Again, check w/ your accountant!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also&#8211;as a part-time employee, can you invest w/ pretax income in a 403b or 457 or deferred comp. That wouldn&#8217;t count as gross income then. Would it? Again, check w/ your accountant!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: frugalscholar</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/03/08/new-refinement-on-year-1-retirement-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-25104</link>
		<dc:creator>frugalscholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=11699#comment-25104</guid>
		<description>Funny--for the self-employed--i.e. those for whom health insurance is not pretax--health insurance is 100% deductible--off the top. It is taken off income. My understanding is that if you make $4000 (self-employed) and your ins is $3000, you pay tax on only $1000.  So it might not count as gross income at all. Needless to say, check on this w/ your accountant. 

You are thinking of the tax deduction--I think it&#039;s over 7.5% for health care costs--that is available to all who itemize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny&#8211;for the self-employed&#8211;i.e. those for whom health insurance is not pretax&#8211;health insurance is 100% deductible&#8211;off the top. It is taken off income. My understanding is that if you make $4000 (self-employed) and your ins is $3000, you pay tax on only $1000.  So it might not count as gross income at all. Needless to say, check on this w/ your accountant. </p>
<p>You are thinking of the tax deduction&#8211;I think it&#8217;s over 7.5% for health care costs&#8211;that is available to all who itemize.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: funny</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/03/08/new-refinement-on-year-1-retirement-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-25102</link>
		<dc:creator>funny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=11699#comment-25102</guid>
		<description>@ frugalscholar: The way I understand it, your medical bills (and apparently health insurance is included??) have to total more than 4% of your gross income before you can deduct it. Mine will total about 10%, so it should be completely deductible.

Social Security&#039;s earnings limit is based on gross income. Period. Not adjusted gross income. Every penny you earn, whether you ever see it in your checking account or not, counts as &quot;income&quot; for the earnings limit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ frugalscholar: The way I understand it, your medical bills (and apparently health insurance is included??) have to total more than 4% of your gross income before you can deduct it. Mine will total about 10%, so it should be completely deductible.</p>
<p>Social Security&#8217;s earnings limit is based on gross income. Period. Not adjusted gross income. Every penny you earn, whether you ever see it in your checking account or not, counts as &#8220;income&#8221; for the earnings limit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: frugalscholar</title>
		<link>http://funny-about-money.com/2010/03/08/new-refinement-on-year-1-retirement-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-25100</link>
		<dc:creator>frugalscholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://funny-about-money.com/?p=11699#comment-25100</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t health insurance entirely deductible for the self-employed? Wouldn&#039;t that lower your income tremendously--perhaps even yielding a loss? Could that loss offset the &quot;extra&quot; income that will go over the income limit  for social security? 

Aside from this (which, in truth, I know nothing about), the &quot;money happens&quot; is great news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t health insurance entirely deductible for the self-employed? Wouldn&#8217;t that lower your income tremendously&#8211;perhaps even yielding a loss? Could that loss offset the &#8220;extra&#8221; income that will go over the income limit  for social security? </p>
<p>Aside from this (which, in truth, I know nothing about), the &#8220;money happens&#8221; is great news.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

