Mine and the credit union’s, that is… We shall see.
I took it upon myself to try to purchase a 2014 Venza through a large local Toyota dealership. Because I was stressing over the increasing unreliability of my 16-year-old Sienna, I just wanted to get this over with. Mistake number 1: Don’t ever get in a hurry to buy a car.
The proposed new car had the lowest mileage of any comparable vehicle I could find within 150 miles of the Funny Farm: 37,350±. The price was just barely under the limit of what I could pay. Sort of. And it appeared to be in good condition. Probably.
I arranged pre-approved financing through my credit union, and presented documentation in the form of a letter of approval shipped directly from the credit union to the dealership.
The dealership’s hustler…uhm, “financial manager”…pressured me fiercely to accept the dealership’s 2.9% financing instead of the 1.9% loan for which I had been approved. I resisted. After “negotiating” (puhleeeze!) most of the day away, they gave me a bill of sale and the keys to the car, and I drove away, thinking I had an expensive used car to park in my garage.
A day and a half later, the “financial manager” called and said the loan had not gone through because they couldn’t get past the credit freeze to pull a credit report from Experian: a flat lie, because they told me they had downloaded my credit report while I was at the dealership, and proving it by revealing they knew my credit score, which is a shade on the amazing side because of my habit of charging everything on AMEX and paying it off at the end of the month. Nor, of course, would they have let me drive the vehicle off the lot without approving a credit report… That notwithstanding: I must hurry back in, he said, to make this right.
This is what is known as a “spot delivery” scam: They pretend to approve you on the spot and let you drive the car off — at which point they take possession of your car — and then they call you back in for more extreme harassment than the hustle you’ve already been through. If you say the deal is off and you want your car back, they tell you they’ve already sold it.
Rather than arguing with the sleazy guy, I called the loan officer I was dealing with. Long story short, he contacted the dealership and arranged for them to accept a check from the credit union for payment in full of the car. I do not know what he said to them, but figure it must have entailed some sort of implicit or explicit threat, because they did NOT want to finance the car at the pre-approved 1.9% rate, and so you may be sure they didn’t want to take a cash payment. Loan officer called late Friday night with instructions to pick up the check at the CU when they opened and deliver it to the bastards.
Over the weekend, I talked my son into coming with me, at considerable inconvenience to him. He has a very heavy workload and did not feel he could take time off today, but seeing the stress the whole fiasco was causing, he agreed to do so.
Also while passing Saturday and Sunday, I downloaded an auto report from Experian’s AutoCheck, which is similar to Carfax. It indeed did show the vehicle had never been in an accident (not a reported one, anyway), and it confirmed the mileage and miscellaneous other details. It also showed that the saleswoman’s claim that it belonged to one ever-so-caring couple was a lie: it had been a fleet/rental/lease car in Las Vegas and was purchased (presumably by Toyota) on September 5 at auction.
Chuck the WonderMechanic had asked me to bring the car up to his shop for a quick inspection when they opened this morning, which was the soonest he could get his lifts free. When I arrived at 8 a.m., they were open and ready to go. Mechanic Harold inspected as much as one could without taking anything apart. He said the vehicle looked to be in good to excellent condition, except for the front brake pads, which he estimated had 6,000 to 8,000 miles left on them. The rear brake pads had been replaced, he said. Everything else that he could easily see appeared to be OK.
From there I flew to the credit union, where I picked up a check for $22,164.83. The manager there, James, had just bought a car at the same dealership a couple of weeks ago and agreed they were difficult to deal with. He also had arranged to pay for his car with a cash advance from the credit union.
Met my son at his office, and we drove to the dealership in his car, lest the bastards try to repossess the Venza.
We delivered the check at about 10:50 a.m.
The “financial manager” did not even remember me! He grabbed the check and tried to make off with it. I said I wanted a receipt. He said he couldn’t give me a receipt: the check clearing the bank would be the receipt.
My son insisted that we be given a receipt acknowledging that we turned the check over to Bell Rd. The guy offered a photocopy. My son said that would be OK if the guy signed it.
He did NOT want to sign it; he would only initial it. My son seemed to think that suffices; I do not, because the scribble he put on it is pretty generic. No one could figure out what it means or who scribbled it.
So it still remains to be seen whether this is going to go through or not.
My son advised me not to contest the $1300 worth of extraneous expenses “financial manager” had tacked on. This is another scam, known as “packed payments“: piling on a shitload of costs so as to drive up the monthly payments. Among the rip-offs were paint sealer I did not ask for or approve and an alarm system that was already on the vehicle, not an add-on ordered by me.
As it develops, the $429 worth of “document fees” may be illegal. Maybe I’ll bring that to the attention of the state attorney general’s office. But maybe not. I’m so royally sick of this, I surely do not feel like ever hearing anything about it again.
So… I have the car, and supposedly the deal is done — though that remains to be seen. Practitioners of the spot delivery scam have been known to badger their marks weeks or even months after the car was transferred. But since it now belongs to the credit union, I doubt if they’ll try any more antics.
Several errors were made on my part:
1. Let myself get enthused about having that car, rather than being willing to wait, possibly for weeks or months, for some other choice to come up.
2. Dealt with the sharks one-on-many, rather than bringing someone with me to “negotiate.”
3. Failed to look up the car on Experian or Carfax myself.
4. Didn’t read the sales agreement word for word for word for word (because I had a migraine headache and could barely focus on the conversation, much less on a complex fine-print document).
5. Tried to power through the migraine.
6. Failed to challenge obvious rip-offs.
7. Did not know I could ask the CU to advance the full purchase price rather than fiddling with a subcontracted loan deal.
Really…you have to wonder why tactics like the ones that were deployed on me are legal at all.
If I ever have to buy a car again — and I sincerely hope I die before that day comes — I’m bringing a lawyer and a police officer with me.
I don’t know what to say, I literally don’t know. Except that I hope and pray that you are DONE with this transaction.
I would have taken a picture of the finance guy holding the check. Sounds like the used car salesman lived up to the stereotype.
Good thought. But literally: he grabbed the thing and started for the back office almost at a run! 😀 That’s exactly what the credit union’s loan officer said he’d do. Loan Officer said to get him to pony up a receipt before letting him touch the thing. L.O. was right…
WOW…..and no free donuts or coffee…Did you happen to find out what they paid for the vehicle at auction? Well at least it’s over….. No wonder the guy over at “Money Mustache” rides a bike!!
There’s something to it. And a bike would cost less, over time, than a mule. Doesn’t eat as much…
No, I couldn’t see the price on the Experian report — only that it was sold at auction. You can bet it was a helluva lot less than they charged me!
We bought a new car from a dealer, paying cash with a check from our credit union. The title came with the credit union as the legal owner. The dealer said sorry but they thought we financed it with the credit union. They did pay for any transfer fees.
Also, we never got the new plates either. Our mailman thought she remembered putting them in our mail box. So we reported them stolen and the dealer requested new ones. Right after we got the new ones (which came quicker than I expected), the salesman for the dealer called and said somehow they came to the dealer and fell behind someone’s desk.
What a mox-up.
Wow!!!! I’ll look at the title closely whenever it gets here. Assuming it does… Also will ask my friendly loan officer at the CU.
“Fell behind someone’s desk”? Ohhh, that’s a good one.
And in all this “chaos”…the CU came thru! Had to make you feel great…like someone else was on your side.
Speaking of tags….DW reminded me that when I bought my truck 13 years ago WE had a tag “situation”. I took my tags from my 1984 Mazda PU with me and had the dealership “transfer” the tags. A transfer of tags is a big savings instead of issuing new tags. The deal goes down…BUT there’s a problem. It seems Mazda to get around truck quotas titled my 1984 PU as a car (The legend is they imported the trucks with no rear bumpers so they could be imported as cars. Then the rear bumpers were added at the dealership and became trucks….Pretty slick) BUT I bought a new truck ….Hmmmm…. And that meant that the tags couldn’t be transferred …. Hmmmm….And that meant there would be added expense for NEW tags …..When this was disclosed over the phone by the manager there was that “awkward silence” and one could hear the “crickets chirping” in the background. When the manager explained/asked “how I wanted handle this”….. I shared that my thought was that it HAD been handled and that based on their action/inaction and now I was riding around on “dead tags” with the risk of getting a ticket and would have the hassle of calling my insurance company and explain to them what happened, new tags, etc, etc. Ultimately the dealership ate the additional costs, I didn’t go to jail and my new tags came in the mail about a week later…And that was that….
Man! Car dealers are sleazy, aren’t they? You have to wonder what is the point…at least in the case of Toyotas and Mazdas (and presumably Hondas and Nissans and Fords and Chevvies) cars practically sell themselves. There are so many resources on- and off-line for people to learn about cars and decide what model they want, you’d t hink a car dealer would be able to say “This is the price: take it or leave it.” And with Kelly Blue Book available to anyone with a computer connection, they could have a list for every make & model stating “this is the trade-in for good, bad, and ugly: take it or leave it.”
I think these people are born hustlers — it’s in their genes. Like a cat pouncing on anything that wriggles, they’re physiologically incapable of doing anything else.
LOL! Imagine “Financial Manager” in the bedroom… “What will it take to get that nightgown off you, dear?”
You just me get your wish….I just read that Cadillac is offering “buyouts” to about 1/2 it’s dealerships. My thought is….if this goes over well the other car companies will follow suit. Leaving us with fewer choices. As for the “slimey/slick” nature of car dealers….I for one just don’t get it. If you treat folks fair one would think that word would get around. And that with a bad experience word travels twice as fast.
I would agree when one goes to buy a car you need to go in prepared and with an attitude that you may buy a car….and/or you may not. Unfortunately, you didn’t seem to have that option as the DC was less than reliable.
So now you have a “worthy mount”….are you enjoying the car….and is there anything better in this world than “that new car smell” ?
It’s a very cool car. I can’t imagine why they quit producing it — and never did market it much. Most people I’ve spoken to so far have never heard of a “Venza”! Also don’t see why Edmunds gave it a “C” rating despite the raves in their written review….only thing, I guess, is that it’s not very sporty.
It’s ridiculously comfortable: ghosts over those damn speed bumps the city sprinkled all over the ‘hood like they were barely there! Steering and braking are a little stiffer than the Dog Chariot’s but not at all difficult. Turning radius is bizarrely tight for a car almost as long as the DC, which was a minivan.
The six-banger is AWESOME. O’course, I had a six-banger in the Dog Chariot, for a reason. I haven’t had to engage it so far…oh, no, I take that back. Some guy tried to cut me off on a freeway on-ramp. Almost forgot about him, he faded away in the rear-view mirror so quickly.
Shee-ut. Yesterday I saw a guy on a motorcycle pass a driver on the right by veering into the off-ramp, flooring it (or whatever one does on a bike), shooting past her on her right, and cutting in between her and the car in front of her. And she was almost right on that car’s bumper — traffic was slow because it was nearly bumper-to-bumper all the way up the freeway.
Arizona’s roads are populated by people who are tired of living…
On the interior, the only thing I can say I dislike — other than the array on array of unnecessary computer functions — is that the headrest cannot be positioned so that it doesn’t wreck your hairstyle. The only way to keep the back of your head from rubbing against it is to hold your head forward in an unnatural way. The headrest is easy to remove, but I think that would be extremely ill-advised.
The rear seating folds down flat, giving you a HUGE cargo space. Unfortunately when they’re folded flat, there’s a gap between the top of the folded seats and the back of the front seats — unsafe for the dogs, who surely will fall in there. This will mean the dogs HAVE to be crated, a huge PITA. I would normally drive them around unsafely in the back of the van, since they don’t move around in a vehicle but instead huddle near the back. Really, it’s much safer to crate dogs in a car…but oh, my…is it ever an aversive task! Leaving the seats up in back and putting them in the “trunk” space (as it were) will work in the wintertime, but because there are no roof-level AC vents (the AC vents are on the back of the between-the-front-seats console), it would be way too hot back there to carry them in the summer.
Studying the owner’s manual…jeez, I need to take a college course to learn to drive this thing!
Just read the last four posts. Yikes, what a mess. I hope that the worst of it is over.
I hope so. They won’t be happy with the review I posted at Edmunds so may try to create more trouble. That will give me a chance to report them to the AG’s office…